What to tell kids about 2021 with Xiomara Taylor

What to tell kids about 2021 with Xiomara Taylor

Episode 39
33:10

Description:

Today, Xiomara is enlightening us on What to tell your kids about 2021.

 

There was similar episode for 2020, the first that was ever published, and I thought it would be good to do another one and see what changed/evolved after 1 year.

This is such an important conversation. Xiomara is super strong. She tells us how she raised her two kids through the pandemic, and how Black Lives Matter shifted the conversations and awareness of her kids.

 

It is very powerful, and it leaves me hopeful for a better future.

 

Hope you will enjoy this episode!

 

Link to the Cosmic Yoga YouTube channel that gave her kids something to focus on for 30 mins!

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/cosmickidsyoga

 

The best way to support this podcast is to subscribe if you haven’t already and write a review if you are listening from Apple Podcasts!

 

You can also find us on Instagram @TheBubblingAdventure for daily positive education content.

Episode Transcript:

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Julie Pabion: hi how are you today.


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Xiomara Taylor: i'm great Thank you.


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Julie Pabion: i'm very happy to have you on that, before we dig in, could you please introduce yourself.


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Xiomara Taylor: Sure, yes, Sir, Mr Taylor I am currently the head of marketing for alternative investments globally at in Chile and and i've been there for about.


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Xiomara Taylor: little over a year now, since I started in February of 2020 so right before.


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Julie Pabion: yeah yes, it did you get you managed to still meet your colleagues right.


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Julie Pabion: Before we all went to lock down.


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Xiomara Taylor: exactly right right before I was able to meet a good handful of my colleagues still haven't met you know many of them, but it was lovely to be able to meet them and have a relationship before we all locked down.


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Julie Pabion: um I can imagine so How has it been for you this this year so for you for your family.


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Xiomara Taylor: Yes, so it was not going to lie was very, very hard at first I think everyone around me, including myself, was in a lot of denial and when we first got the.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know the the notifications from the schools, especially, and you know it's one thing for.


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Xiomara Taylor: it's one thing for us to be sent home and work from home that was actually not not as big of a shocker but for the schools to.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, take a two week break and then you know us naive naive Lee thinking up after two weeks they'll just go back and that two weeks turned into two months and and so on and so you know we went months and months with having my at the time, my two and a half year olds was.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know in daycare like nursery school and she was she was home and my four year old at the time was in preschool and.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know just never really got a chance to officially finish before entering kindergarten and yeah it was it was a lot to take a take on at first for sure just trying to manage, especially because of how their age, there was a lot, it was mostly an asynchronous.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, teaching style that was happening because no one was ready to do anything virtually so I was having to start a new job.


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Xiomara Taylor: be a month third, a few weeks in and then have both of my children home full time without much of it much activity for them to participate in that was school related that I could really you know focus with them on so that was immensely difficult in the beginning for sure.


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Julie Pabion: I can imagine, because just having yourself to.


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Julie Pabion: adapt to the situation you don't know how long it's gonna last so you don't really know what to tell them or you know you have to first be ready and i'm sure you are also very busy starting of.


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Julie Pabion: A new jobs and.


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Julie Pabion: yeah, it must be.


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Julie Pabion: It must be tough to keep them busy, and in a you know productive way issue is it like not like killing each other, of course.


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Julie Pabion: You see what I mean like how siblings play and so Where are you based currently.


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Xiomara Taylor: I, yes, I am in northern New Jersey and you know, in terms of offices, I am about maybe 40 minutes commute outside of Manhattan and for our New York office and i'm in midtown Manhattan so i'm.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, in a suburb of northern New Jersey and no small small community but very accessible to New York City.


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Julie Pabion: Nice nice so yeah the kids are are still like poverty able to go outside.


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Julie Pabion: Yes, and like play yeah because I can imagine in the in Manhattan how invest even even more challenging.


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Xiomara Taylor: Yes, so lucky, for us, you know, we have the you know the privilege to live in a home and have a backyard and have space I.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know I definitely feel for families who you know are.


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Xiomara Taylor: Not necessarily confined to an apartment it's you know a lot of their choice to be in an apartment and it was it works it works for you, it works for you, but when you can't leave it's a very different place i'm sure, and so.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, going outside doesn't mean the same to me, is it means to someone who lives in that sort of structure, so I am very thankful that we have outdoor green space to.


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Xiomara Taylor: Wait to you know, allow the kids to go out and just get some fresh air and still be at home and be safe, that was very, very welcome for us.


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Julie Pabion: During that time for sure for sure, and so, how did your kids react did they even feel there was something happening or was it more it's the new normal right away.


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Xiomara Taylor: Yes, they I think we underestimate as parents, especially as parents of young children, that the kids are not as aware they they were very aware and they.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know they heard what was going on the tv's on the local news they they heard it they saw our reactions, they saw our frustrations and definitely felt it and we're aware they.


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Xiomara Taylor: talked to them about it, they would ask every day, you know when they were going to see their friends again no did their friends have Kurt the coronavirus as we were calling it at that, at that point, and it was.


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Xiomara Taylor: It was definitely something that they felt and could sense the change almost immediately, and I think we.


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Xiomara Taylor: First, thought that you know they would just enjoy kind of being home and not having to go to school and having to being able to play all day, essentially because we just needed to make sure that they were occupied but.


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Xiomara Taylor: They knew that this was very different you mommy and Daddy were not going getting up and leaving and going to work every day, they were staying home and they they noticed immediately that this was not the normal thing that we do.


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Julie Pabion: And maybe.


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Xiomara Taylor: It definitely impacted them.


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Julie Pabion: Of course, because I remember when I was a kid even just one school year how long did that fell did that feel like it would feel like a whole life, you know this year was so long, so I can imagine that, I mean now has been a year so like in kids like in the kids purpose active it's even.


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Julie Pabion: longer than for us.


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Xiomara Taylor: So what did you keep them busy do you have any like favorite activities.


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Xiomara Taylor: And so what At first I I committed myself to creating some sort of schedule and some sort of you know.


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Xiomara Taylor: When they you know I subscribe to all of the online educational Apps ABC mouse noggin there's a couple of.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, a couple of children's programming that have Apps that are educational that I said.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, in the morning will wake up just like we do every day we're not going to stay in our pajamas we're going to wake up we're going to eat breakfast.


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Xiomara Taylor: And you know we're going to do at least you know, an hour or an hour and a half of learning on you know, on the on their tablets or and we make sure we get them some.


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Xiomara Taylor: Some some some really quality tablets, not necessarily ipads but the you know just we invested in some some some tablets that we're going to work for them so that they can at least be engaged with that, but we didn't want them to spend all day doing that.


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Xiomara Taylor: But at least have some sort of.


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Xiomara Taylor: interaction and educational.


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Xiomara Taylor: interaction, so that was so we had a schedule, we had a lunchtime like I would break for lunch, all of us would try to eat together, or at least do our best to do that and we had.


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Xiomara Taylor: I looked at all of the different you know movement activities there was a great person on YouTube who does.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know the story time kind of yoga and you know it lasts for like 30 minutes and the kids were able to do that together and they were really engaged in it, but just like everything.


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Xiomara Taylor: After a couple of times it it got you know redundant and they weren't interested and they lost interest, and so you know I really had to be flexible, with my time and it was much more difficult for my husband to do that.


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Xiomara Taylor: Due to the nature of his work, but he also just he's more he's a recruiter and so kind of like a salesperson for people and, and so it was a really difficult time, because you know companies were putting hiring freezes on they.


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Xiomara Taylor: weren't sure what was you know.


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Xiomara Taylor: The impact of of what was happening was just very it was very uncertain and and he was doing the best that he can to you know, keep his business alive and so that was also very difficult.


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Xiomara Taylor: And we just tried to keep them as active as possible but, honestly, you know I used to beat myself up about this, but it, it was also fine for them to just watch TV and.


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Xiomara Taylor: figure out how to play with themselves, you know and and that was I used to be really hard on myself for saying we can't just sit in front of a TV all day.


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Xiomara Taylor: But then, you know as I look back at it man, especially my husband, I said, you know, honestly, you know.


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Xiomara Taylor: barry's going through this to you know, no one knows what to do right, no one knows how to figure this out so.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know they'll they need to learn that if they're bored they are the only ones that can get themselves out of boredom and they need to learn how to be bored.


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Xiomara Taylor: Which is something a concept that we never really thought that we were have to tackle, because they were always so busy and active doing things and so that was our initial way you know we would host movie nights I would have different theme dinner nights but.


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Xiomara Taylor: It it's very tiring and exhausting especially you know I mean my husband can say all he wants that he tried to do as much as it could, but it really fell on me.


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Xiomara Taylor: Yes, you know it was it was really the mental charged that's the most tiring thing because.


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Julie Pabion: I mean, even when you have to think about like a theme dinner, a lot of decisions come into that seemed.


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Julie Pabion: To me, of choice and the activity and things like that, like it's all stuck in your in your head.


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Julie Pabion: And so it's something that is hard to delegates.


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Julie Pabion: Yes, and I think but yeah I think it's great also that kids got to learn, maybe, how to be a bit more creative.


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Julie Pabion: Yes, their own and maybe discover their own personality and a bit.


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Xiomara Taylor: Yes, absolutely and what we found during this whole time which I think is probably one of the most rewarding things that belt as as kids they'll get out of this is very relationship as siblings.


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Xiomara Taylor: Was.


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Xiomara Taylor: I mean we saw it, we saw it blossom you know they they've never spent that much time together ever you know even, as you know, they're they're about two years apart, just over two years apart so.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know they've always been no one in a nursery or they care and the other, you know, while she was a baby home with me and then and then eventually off to a nursery so they've never spent the full day a full 24 hours together consistently for weeks and weeks and weeks ever.


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Xiomara Taylor: Until this point, and so this.


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Xiomara Taylor: This really allowed them to develop a relationship that we would have never been able to manufacture had something like this, not happen.


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Xiomara Taylor: And, not to say that they wouldn't have been close later on in life but.


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Xiomara Taylor: They are immensely close they miss each other when each of them are not there, but do they want to see their own friends, too, but.


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Xiomara Taylor: they've really developed a remarkable relationship that you know, at times, got hectic but they figured out how to like.


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Xiomara Taylor: If they thought, how to make up if they disagreed how to you know how to move on without us having to interfere you interfered a lot, but they were they were also learning how to figure it out for themselves and to be at that time five and three.


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Xiomara Taylor: And you know I i'm amazed by that they they they teach me every every day how how to how to deal with something hard, because for them to be so young and figuring that out, I was it was really amazing.


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Julie Pabion: um no it's definitely valuable life lessons that they're learning, without even realizing so ya know I think you know we always talk about the negative effects that is going to have on the generations but.


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Julie Pabion: Of course there's also some positive, so thank you for saying that I think it's very inspiring and.


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Julie Pabion: it's also partly my you know I know it's my parents clean to have like the siblings come together and we are very close with like.


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Julie Pabion: You know, do a little bit more, so I guess it's it's very positive, but of course there is not only the pandemic There was also the bad guys matter movement that.


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Julie Pabion: What did not stop but really you know blew up, and I know that for other people, it was also and tiring and a lot of weight on your shoulders to you know, have to answer questions have to talk about it, and I know that some of my friends even took.


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Julie Pabion: Like weeks of social media to recover.


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Julie Pabion: How, how did you go about it did you like did it bring some new conversation in your House over the conversation that you had before.


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Xiomara Taylor: yeah I mean i'm you know living in our House and you know.


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Xiomara Taylor: we're a black family.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know i'm i'm my background, you know my mother is Puerto Rican my father is black my husband is black my my my children for all intensive purposes will identify as black.


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Xiomara Taylor: So our experience you know my experience growing up how we are introducing race to our children we don't have a choice.


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Xiomara Taylor: It is, it is the way that they are being brought up, however, this was this past the past summer was the first time that I think my children really associated.


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Xiomara Taylor: Or at least really saw violence associated with race that was something that while baby they they were aware that you know, maybe they were one of one or two of you know.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, black and brown kids in their classrooms at the time, but it was you know never miss anything more than the skin tone it was.


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Xiomara Taylor: really nothing more than that.


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Xiomara Taylor: They you know my son, especially took this very hard and because he saw the effect it was having on us, especially my husband.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, we were we had we couldn't turn off the news and.


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Xiomara Taylor: It was difficult for my son, especially because he saw.


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Xiomara Taylor: He saw violence against people that looked like his dad.


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Xiomara Taylor: And so.


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Xiomara Taylor: That was really, really difficult for him and.


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Xiomara Taylor: and talking to him about it is something that we.


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Xiomara Taylor: We we thought we would be prepared for it because we grew up learning and talking about it, but I don't think as a parent you're ever ready for that conversation ever i'm sorry.


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Julie Pabion: Take your time and I have two years, so no, it is very heartbreaking and it's it, I mean we definitely agree that it shouldn't be this way shouldn't be this hard.


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Julie Pabion: As it also it's also like so many years have passed on trauma.


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Xiomara Taylor: Yes.


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Xiomara Taylor: Absolutely yeah and and, and so I think I think that we did our best to be as age, appropriate as possible we didn't want to confuse him too much.


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Xiomara Taylor: And we tried to be as positive as possible and but also just not hiding the facts and the facts, you know around history and.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know what what what bias and implicit bias means you know my five year old now six year old had to learn that at five you know and so.


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Xiomara Taylor: Thankfully, you know and what the positive is out of all of all of this is that.


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Xiomara Taylor: He is he is very aware.


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Xiomara Taylor: he's not completely understanding which I think is fair, for his age, he now has access to stories and books and.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know other kind of learning materials that probably wouldn't have existed had those things not happened and and and you know we're just going to continue to work on it my daughter was not, as you know, just her being so much younger.


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Xiomara Taylor: And it's kind of a you know what a difference that even two years.


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Xiomara Taylor: makes she she's not as clued in however she's what she was clued in on which was pretty amazing was seeing the.


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Xiomara Taylor: Election of our President.


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Xiomara Taylor: And i'm seeing our Vice President, and she literally is watching we're watching the inauguration and she says.


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Xiomara Taylor: She looks at me and she looks at her and she looks at me and she looks at her and she says mom she's a really important lady right, I said yes she's probably the most important lady in the world, and she said well.


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Xiomara Taylor: She really looks like you, you really look like that lady, and I said.


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Xiomara Taylor: Yes, I think I do i'll take it, she goes you look like one of the most important ladies in the world, and I was like.


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Xiomara Taylor: Well that's you know they're there it is right, very, very it is in in how important that representation was for her her mom look like, I mean I people stopped me in the street it's pretty.


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Xiomara Taylor: I know people can't see I I will take my resemblance to kamala Harris any day and and she you know, for her to make that association.


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Xiomara Taylor: Not only because just she happens to physically look like her mom but her that that her mom has brown skin her mom has brown hair she has brown skin, she has brown hair brown eyes.


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Xiomara Taylor: And and that's the most one of the most important people in the world, and so she you know that is like that was her moment that you know you said okay she's.


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Xiomara Taylor: She sees something here she's she's recognizing that there's something different here that she doesn't she hasn't normally seen, which I thought was.


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Xiomara Taylor: Was was i'll get again just you know just a remarkable thing to see it I don't know that it would have seen X, I would have been in the office that day.


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Julie Pabion: had I not been yes, yes, no it's so important and yeah it's also.


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Julie Pabion: Marking you know, the lack of representation for so many years and that she like for her even if she's tiny, it was an important day.


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Xiomara Taylor: yeah.


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Julie Pabion: That is going to probably like shape also the rest of our life, so I think it's such a good story like a half, two years ago.


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Julie Pabion: Okay.


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Julie Pabion: No it's a it's it's yeah So do you think that it had it has had a very positive impact on your kids or did it bring more like whoa is, and do you think it's like the question, but do you think that.


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Julie Pabion: Like the.


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Julie Pabion: World talking about black lives matter sort of like died down this past few months, and what do you think about it.


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Xiomara Taylor: I think I think, just like anything within our kind of media cycle just being in the marketing industry myself things have their.


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Xiomara Taylor: Their high and low points I don't doubt for a second just due to the unfortunate nature of you know, lack of policy and things that are that are going on that.


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Xiomara Taylor: Unfortunately, you know you know something else will happen, however, do I think that an important Needle has been moved, yes, and I think that for my children they see that, for example, you know our eyes were once again glued to the to the TV screens during the George for the trial of.


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Xiomara Taylor: George George was murder so, and you know my my my son again can have asked you know she he sees.


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Xiomara Taylor: chauvin and he's and he sees him on TV and he sees all of the news about him and he asks you know mommy is that man going to jail is that man that put the neon on that on.


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Xiomara Taylor: On the guy who looks like Daddy is is he going to jail for doing that and I said yes, he is and she said he said so that he's he's he says that it's a really good day today isn't it I said yes.


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Xiomara Taylor: And so he's very old he's still very aware of you know now he sees which I think is important that there is there was a consequence, an action that was taken and.


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Xiomara Taylor: And that is you know, without me even like I you know we didn't we didn't we didn't.


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Xiomara Taylor: spark that conversation with him, he did that on his own, and so I think you know i'm worried, of course, as I will always be for him, as he gets older and kind of what sort of impact this will have but.


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Xiomara Taylor: i'm also i'm also encouraged that he doesn't have to look too far to find someone to talk to that will have some shared experience, or at least have some stories of of experience to share because he's got his.


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Xiomara Taylor: grandfather both his grandfather's both of his uncle's his father to to look to you and and not not not every child has that and so i'm grateful that that he does.


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Xiomara Taylor: And they will all have shared experiences and they will all have a perspective to share with him, as he gets older.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, for better for worse, but they will they will have it and he'll be able to to learn from that so I mean.


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Xiomara Taylor: While the conversation I think is definitely kind of Evan fluid in terms of around the whole the whole subject matter, the whole black lives matter movement.


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Xiomara Taylor: It has not died down I don't think in the slightest, but I do think that you know that the cycle of attention, it will is doing what it does, and you know it's just a matter of time, hopefully it's not for unfortunate reasons but it's it's just a matter of time.


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Julie Pabion: Yes, yes, yes, no it's um I think it was necessary for for all of us and yeah, as you said.


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Julie Pabion: I think we're still learning educating ourselves still talking about it but it's not making headlines headlines anymore, but we need to to keep on just learning I think that's the first, the first step.


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Julie Pabion: And yeah it's it's been.


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Julie Pabion: I yeah I don't know how you, you can teach your kids certain things and I have a lot of respect for for you, having to go through that and especially during a pandemic it's.


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Julie Pabion: I mean you know it was enough.


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Xiomara Taylor: yeah yeah yeah.


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Julie Pabion: How are you feeling now.


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Xiomara Taylor: i'm feeling a lot more positive about things definitely now I think we're you know we've established a bit of routine my.


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Xiomara Taylor: My my children are are back in school half days now five days a week, which is wonderful, they definitely don't have the same relationships with their.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know schoolmates as they would have at this time, you know where.


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Xiomara Taylor: you're being invited to birthday parties and things like that, I mean.


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Xiomara Taylor: While those are happening they're not happening at the same scale and and the whole classes and invited like like like previous years right so it's just a very different way we're navigating it but.


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Xiomara Taylor: we're keeping them very active and you know I i've gotten you know very comfortable with my work from home life I would love to see my team and.


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Xiomara Taylor: And, and you know meet some of my my my colleagues that I have not yet met, but I don't know that I have to be in an office every day in order to.


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Xiomara Taylor: accomplish that.


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Xiomara Taylor: And I, and I think the what I what I will never take back from this whole experience is the amount of time.


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Xiomara Taylor: Quality time that I got to spend with my children that I would have never been able to do have this not happen so.


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Xiomara Taylor: I you know the the the time you know that we get to like the the snuggles and the you know the the being able to.


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Xiomara Taylor: Being able to make dinner at a reasonable time and put them to bed and not have to deal with the struggles of a commute especially back and forth from Manhattan which is you know could be nightmarish at times.


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Xiomara Taylor: or staying at work late and having to deal with the aftermath of that or having to travel for.


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Xiomara Taylor: For for work, which you know I actually really love to do, but you know, I was always very strategic about how I did it so that it wouldn't take me away, for you know months or weeks on, and you know back to back so.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, having that time back is is really nice, but you know also we're now a vaccinated household outside of my children, you know I am vaccinated my husband's vaccinated by parents are vaccinated you know we we had coven back in March, it was.


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Julie Pabion: awesome.


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Xiomara Taylor: It was terrible nine by parents my brothers, you know my sister in law's like we were all you know, we have our little pod we all live within like.


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Xiomara Taylor: 10 to 15 minutes away from each other, so all we would do is just spend time at each other's homes and i'm so thankful that we had that, but we also all spread over to each other at least you know at the at the.


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Xiomara Taylor: At the start, so you know now we're all you know we're all vaccinated and we feel very comfortable about being around each other and spending time with each other, because we can.


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Xiomara Taylor: So you know I think we'll have probably the most normal summer yet.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, compared to last summer, and you know my kids are going to go to Camp this year.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know, like.


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Xiomara Taylor: That you know that they're going to do that and we're gonna we're going to actually take a vacation and you know so all of those things are back a little glimpses of normalcy but.


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Xiomara Taylor: um I think that I think that.


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Xiomara Taylor: what's going to be interesting is like when especially my daughter who's who's Rachel before very soon.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know I think what will be interesting to see like when she's turns five is if she's ever going to remember a time when we didn't have to wear masks I don't know if she you know.


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Xiomara Taylor: she's she's going to read she's young enough that her memories her long term memories not going to quite kicked in yet and I don't know.


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Xiomara Taylor: What that's going to look like, because this is very purpose is going to be very permanent for her, so I think that's going to be very interesting to see.


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Julie Pabion: that's true I can barely remember myself but no it's good to see the light at the end of the tunnel.


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Julie Pabion: Yes, but I hope that she'll get to see.


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Julie Pabion: You know that not wearing a mask is normal in a few rounds years let's let's be hopeful no Okay, so you you come out of this year.


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Julie Pabion: changed and also feeling feeling hopeful and having learned a lot of things and having your family very close together so that's that's good to hear to only keep the good things and come out stronger for sure So is there any last advice that you would like to share.


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Xiomara Taylor: yeah I mean I think for for for parents.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know kind of kind of relating back to to what I said a little earlier in terms of you know, giving giving your children a break on you know.


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Xiomara Taylor: If they're driving you crazy if if if you're not sure what to do, or how to motivate them or how to.


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Xiomara Taylor: inspire them or how to keep them from being bored that like they're going through this too, and whatever sort of.


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Xiomara Taylor: If you're having a down moment if you're having an unsure moment that like they're having those to the way they process of March is not an adult ways right so.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know I feel like cutting yourself some slack and saying that you're doing you're doing enough, and you know, especially mothers like.


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Xiomara Taylor: you're doing you're doing enough, and not to get so down on you know what you might see from other other friends or family on social media or you know even what you see on some some of these.


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Xiomara Taylor: You know daytime TV shows, but all the fun activities, you could be doing with your kids and it's like, no, no one has time for that.


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Xiomara Taylor: And if you do more power to you and your in your wonderful, but I to even just step away and kind of appreciate so much of the good things that have happened because otherwise you'll just be in a very dark place.


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Xiomara Taylor: And, and you know it stay there, and it's really difficult to get out of that and I know I know some people have.


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Xiomara Taylor: Better situations, the others, but being really grateful for what you know for the positives that have come out of out of this and the time that has been spent, you know it, it was it was enough it's it's enough and you're doing enough and.


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Xiomara Taylor: and trying to tell yourself that is easier said than done i'm sure.


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Julie Pabion: For sure, but actually when you think about it on me even I would say 50 years ago parents wouldn't play with their kids.


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Julie Pabion: Still, I mean.


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Julie Pabion: Do you remember your parents like actually playing with you a lot like it's I think it's new and.


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Julie Pabion: I put a lot of pressure and also, as you said, on social media it's only the highlights of your like.


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Julie Pabion: You don't know what's going on the rest of the day, so.


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Julie Pabion: Exactly yeah it's definitely creating.


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Julie Pabion: You know, like I don't know I would say, lack of confidence, or just doubt and and self judgment but yeah it's like I don't think.


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Julie Pabion: kids were playing with their parents back then.


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Julie Pabion: yeah as much.


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Julie Pabion: No it's Okay, they can you know it's the same.


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Julie Pabion: Some sometimes when even you, you know you shovel and you see just.


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Julie Pabion: How without screens some kids are so much happier and you're like oh my God like this is yeah it's all been added to the web laughs I think is very interesting and well, maybe now they they learn how to.


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Julie Pabion: occupy themselves and find activities and yeah I know you're completely right like you're doing your best, and that is already more than enough so.


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Julie Pabion: Yes, yeah okay Thank you so so much for good advice it's it's been a very interesting conversation and we'll put some links in the description box of some things that you talked about so.


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Julie Pabion: If you want to to find out more just look at the description of the episode, so thank you so so much xiomara Thank you.


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Xiomara Taylor: Thank you, this is great Thank you so much.


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Julie Pabion

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