How to guide your child through higher education with Zakiya Akerele

How to guide your child through higher education with Zakiya Akerele

Episode 74


In today’s episode, Zakiya who is a former professor and author of the book ‘Dump your Degree’ tells us all about how to guide your child through higher education.

We talk about guidance and career advice, how to be open to your kids ideas while helping them seek out the info, that sometimes it is a expectations vs reality journey, how to find a mentor and finally let your kids navigate their dreams and aspirations. 

I truly believe this episode is super helpful for parents and kids – if you can please take 1min to share this episode with someone, I would be so grateful as it truly helps. You can also write a review if you are listening from Apple Podcasts, click on the 5-star button on Spotify and join us on Instagram @thebubblingadventure for daily positive education content.


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Episode Transcript:

00:00:01.050 --> 00:00:01.709 Zakiya Akerele: Okay. 2 00:00:03.570 --> 00:00:05.490 Julie Pabion: hi Zakiya how are you today. 3 00:00:05.730 --> 00:00:06.600 Zakiya Akerele: Good in yourself. 4 00:00:07.379 --> 00:00:10.650 Julie Pabion: Very good happy to be chatting with you today thanks for joining. 5 00:00:10.889 --> 00:00:12.150 Zakiya Akerele: same here, thank you. 6 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:15.240 Julie Pabion: Could you please introduce yourself to the audience. 7 00:00:15.570 --> 00:00:23.310 Zakiya Akerele: Yes, my name is Zakiya I currently I am a professor well formally because currently i'm a full time author. 8 00:00:23.910 --> 00:00:30.840 Zakiya Akerele: But I was previously, a professor in the humanities I taught courses and will religions, philosophy and things like that. 9 00:00:31.770 --> 00:00:39.060 Zakiya Akerele: But I recently released a book dump your degree, how to repurpose your education controlling your career and gain financial freedom. 10 00:00:39.540 --> 00:00:57.360 Zakiya Akerele: And so that's basically been my I would say third baby at this point, I have two children, and this has been like a child to me getting this prepared and released, and also a homeschool mom of two or two children and so juggling many balls here. 11 00:00:58.620 --> 00:01:09.540 Julie Pabion: Yes, yes, so many heads, so one person that is impressive and yeah I mean very impressive as well, because obviously reading a book is another work. 12 00:01:09.600 --> 00:01:11.730 Julie Pabion: So you can tell us a little bit more. 13 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:14.640 Julie Pabion: About that that and also the title is quite. 14 00:01:15.060 --> 00:01:19.860 Julie Pabion: yeah you know it's it's quite it's something for someone who used to be a professor isn't that. 15 00:01:19.860 --> 00:01:30.270 Zakiya Akerele: Yes, yes and that's why I titled it that it was a different title, all together, and then I started taking courses in book publishing. 16 00:01:30.930 --> 00:01:40.110 Zakiya Akerele: And one of my I would say virtual mentors i've never met him but he's like a guru in the publishing world and he's like make that title catchy and I was like what can. 17 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:49.680 Zakiya Akerele: Catch someone's attention especially coming from a professor someone with four degrees a PhD like Why would I tell somebody dump your degree, but. 18 00:01:50.370 --> 00:01:58.500 Zakiya Akerele: The title is really to be taken, not necessarily literally, although you could literally dump your degrees. 19 00:01:58.770 --> 00:02:15.180 Zakiya Akerele: What to and just pivot and get into another career unrelated to your degree, but it's more of a figurative statement that the degree, should not be the main focus in prepare pepper excuse me, in preparation for your career, so a lot of people focus on the degree. 20 00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:21.630 Zakiya Akerele: And they don't look at the sum total of their talents their skills, their passions and things like that. 21 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:34.140 Julie Pabion: yeah I mean this is true, this is something I can relate to, as well as you know you just like have to make a decision and you're young and you feel like it's going to be the you know, defining. 22 00:02:34.950 --> 00:02:37.830 Julie Pabion: The rest of your life in it doesn't necessarily have to but. 23 00:02:38.190 --> 00:02:39.960 Julie Pabion: is another pressure. 24 00:02:40.140 --> 00:02:40.860 Julie Pabion: Right so. 25 00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:50.460 Julie Pabion: Who, who is the book and you know for is it for parents to advise their kids or for parents themselves or like, how do you. 26 00:02:50.640 --> 00:03:02.220 Zakiya Akerele: Is for any i've had people read it parents students college dropouts it's i've had people from various age groups, primarily my target audience. 27 00:03:02.580 --> 00:03:19.290 Zakiya Akerele: Is gen Z and millennials more so in the audience that is currently graduating from high school primarily recent college grads and current students college still we come in the US so probably say college or university students. 28 00:03:20.430 --> 00:03:33.030 Zakiya Akerele: who need to kind of find their way have some advice and guidance that they might not have received, whether it be from their parents or any other mentors in their life but it's also helpful to parents who. 29 00:03:33.450 --> 00:03:45.420 Zakiya Akerele: may not know how to guide their child through navigating higher education, so you have many students who i've encountered for first generation college students. 30 00:03:45.870 --> 00:03:47.190 Zakiya Akerele: um some of them. 31 00:03:47.490 --> 00:03:55.620 Zakiya Akerele: Have are not first generation their parents with this, you know university their grandparents did as well, but there's a difference in. 32 00:03:55.860 --> 00:04:05.280 Zakiya Akerele: The expectations for the student now and they're experiencing things differently there's been a big shift in how higher education works. 33 00:04:05.550 --> 00:04:22.410 Zakiya Akerele: So their parents may not know how to properly guide them as well, so it's for parents is for students is for early career professionals anyone meeting that help in navigating higher education, but also the job market and career readiness after they graduate. 34 00:04:23.400 --> 00:04:28.980 Julie Pabion: hmm yeah that's very interesting, I think I mean it's definitely helpful for for everyone. 35 00:04:29.250 --> 00:04:30.240 Julie Pabion: And what. 36 00:04:30.840 --> 00:04:43.260 Julie Pabion: Because you chose the education path yourself so was it always a passion to to always know what you wanted to do or, can you please tell us a bit more about your journey. 37 00:04:43.650 --> 00:05:00.120 Zakiya Akerele: Yes, so um I am not a first generation my mother was an educator though she had a early learning development Center for some years, she was an early learning educator my grandmother her mother was also a elementary school teacher. 38 00:05:01.200 --> 00:05:09.480 Zakiya Akerele: And I did I had no plans of becoming an educator my goal was to be a lawyer, actually, and so I thought I was going to go to law school. 39 00:05:10.230 --> 00:05:20.640 Zakiya Akerele: And then, when I actually I got a scholarship to undergrad on a music scholarship and plan to kind of balance music with pre law. 40 00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:35.310 Zakiya Akerele: And after falling in love with the humanities with world religions learning about cultures i'm fascinated about learning about different people from around the world, I decided to change my major and still pursue going to law school afterwards. 41 00:05:35.700 --> 00:05:50.280 Zakiya Akerele: But um I didn't do well on the law school entrance exam and I was like Okay, should I take it again i'm devastated I don't know what to do, and then I was like wait a minute, you have a passion pursue that so I ended up going to Grad school. 42 00:05:51.030 --> 00:05:56.430 Zakiya Akerele: and studying religion ended up getting another master's in international education. 43 00:05:57.750 --> 00:06:11.190 Zakiya Akerele: And then going to get my PhD and ended up being a professor so that's kind of how it shifted I thought I wanted to be something and ended up being you know going in a different field entirely yeah. 44 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:19.410 Julie Pabion: yeah so you can have also experienced that yourself and it's like okay gotta you know bounce back and. 45 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:25.260 Julie Pabion: We have to say and pivot. 46 00:06:25.440 --> 00:06:29.640 Julie Pabion: yeah in whatever your yeah that's very interesting and. 47 00:06:30.330 --> 00:06:44.130 Julie Pabion: I guess as a professor you maybe you saw so the all the students go through Oh yes, that right so so is that something that. 48 00:06:44.850 --> 00:06:55.740 Julie Pabion: Like i'm really interested in like what really inspires you like what you know, is there, maybe even an example that you thought oh my God like I could really just read a book about this. 49 00:06:55.770 --> 00:06:59.850 Zakiya Akerele: Yes, i've had multiple examples from students of mine who. 50 00:07:00.450 --> 00:07:06.360 Zakiya Akerele: And I talked about them in the book who i've had or natural born entrepreneurs who. 51 00:07:06.780 --> 00:07:14.490 Zakiya Akerele: You know, given the opportunity, probably didn't even need to go to college, they could have just gone straight out of high school because they were already kind of in that. 52 00:07:14.850 --> 00:07:22.350 Zakiya Akerele: Entrepreneurial energy, space doing their own business, I had those that were artists who were passionate about their art who. 53 00:07:22.650 --> 00:07:32.670 Zakiya Akerele: could afford you know for go college and and they would have been fine, but because their parents told them, you have to get a degree um. 54 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:43.170 Zakiya Akerele: Some of them were very successful right they they finish their degree, but parent the parents were still trying to guide them in a direction that was in opposition to their passion. 55 00:07:43.860 --> 00:08:01.230 Zakiya Akerele: and others weren't as successful in higher education, because that just was not where they were mentally and so trying to make a person at 1718 years old, decide what they will be for the rest of their life is crazy to. 56 00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:19.890 Zakiya Akerele: me, though, many people say that undergrad getting your first degree is more so for exploration and not what you will use for your career though many people do get a degree in something and undergrad and then they go in that same field, most people with. 57 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:37.320 Zakiya Akerele: They pivot like you said or there's a in the US statistically I think it's over 40% of people are not working in their degree background so so many people are just they got the degree, but they don't use it in one way or another, and i've seen that with my students often. 58 00:08:38.490 --> 00:08:46.800 Julie Pabion: hmm that's interesting also to to think about the like how it is in different countries, because obviously i'm French. 59 00:08:47.130 --> 00:08:48.660 Julie Pabion: And in France it's. 60 00:08:48.930 --> 00:08:49.740 Very. 61 00:08:50.910 --> 00:08:55.260 Julie Pabion: Like you, once you're in one field, you can have have to stay. 62 00:08:55.620 --> 00:08:58.770 Julie Pabion: You know, as in like this is at least your first jobs and so on, like. 63 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:08.400 Julie Pabion: It has to kind of be that, so I mean that's at least what they told me a few years ago, when I graduated I don't know how. 64 00:09:08.670 --> 00:09:09.690 Julie Pabion: How true, it is, but. 65 00:09:10.050 --> 00:09:12.540 Julie Pabion: In the UK, where I currently live. 66 00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:16.890 Julie Pabion: Some people study, for example, geology. 67 00:09:17.220 --> 00:09:30.150 Julie Pabion: And like history, and then they do investment banking, you know it's, so I think it's very fascinating and I think probably the American system is a bit of both. 68 00:09:30.390 --> 00:09:33.030 Zakiya Akerele: Definitely yeah my husband is Nigerian. 69 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:38.580 Zakiya Akerele: And I was blown away to hear not only similarly like you mentioned in France. 70 00:09:39.090 --> 00:09:45.090 Zakiya Akerele: Once you've gotten a degree in something you stick with it, so if you're going to Grad school it's in the same field. 71 00:09:45.390 --> 00:09:52.080 Zakiya Akerele: Where in America, you can get a degree, for the most part right, you can get a degree in anything and undergrad and go to Grad school. 72 00:09:52.350 --> 00:09:58.470 Zakiya Akerele: like myself, I studied religion and then got a degree a master's degree in education and international education. 73 00:09:58.830 --> 00:10:04.800 Zakiya Akerele: There might have been some maybe small overlap, but for the most part there wasn't I was able to tie them together. 74 00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:11.700 Zakiya Akerele: Through working on research projects that connected like research on certain religious groups and how they performed academically. 75 00:10:12.150 --> 00:10:21.810 Zakiya Akerele: But I you know I saw out those opportunities of melding them together um but yeah you can pretty much get it, even when I. 76 00:10:22.170 --> 00:10:31.140 Zakiya Akerele: changed my major from political science to religion, I still plan to go to law school because I found out, you can go to law school with any degree in undergrad in here that you. 77 00:10:31.770 --> 00:10:39.270 Zakiya Akerele: know that is very interesting know that it was like that in France, similarly in West Africa i've heard where you have to stick to the same thing. 78 00:10:40.470 --> 00:10:51.660 Julie Pabion: guys, I mean, I guess, once you have a few years, you know, under your belt then maybe it's a bit different I mean that I haven't lived in France in a year so maybe that. 79 00:10:52.230 --> 00:11:05.520 Julie Pabion: I did graduate from a French Business School and, to be honest, the only things that you know I still use it's not really much fun and I do have a corporate job right. 80 00:11:05.790 --> 00:11:07.290 Julie Pabion: And like my business. 81 00:11:07.470 --> 00:11:18.000 Julie Pabion: degree doesn't really serve me that much I think anybody could do it if they really had the willpower to, and the only thing is more. 82 00:11:18.510 --> 00:11:31.500 Julie Pabion: meeting people traveling and like you know, like all that culture that you, you get as you go and then maybe one or two classes, but you can do without so you know he's just thinking all these years of this money. 83 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:34.830 Julie Pabion: But I guess it does. 84 00:11:36.150 --> 00:11:47.340 Julie Pabion: I guess because it's like you have to work with what you want to do so it's already hard when you're young and then what the recruiters are looking for sometimes so yeah. 85 00:11:48.570 --> 00:11:49.650 Julie Pabion: it's definitely not easy. 86 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:51.150 Zakiya Akerele: I get it. 87 00:11:52.950 --> 00:12:06.720 Julie Pabion: Yes, and so obviously the step one for parents listening is either reading your book or giving them to their kids, what do you think is another thing that you would advice. 88 00:12:06.750 --> 00:12:10.110 Julie Pabion: For you know as as like a step to to help your kid. 89 00:12:10.800 --> 00:12:17.250 Zakiya Akerele: will be open to their ideas, a lot of times, you know as parents, we feel like we have the best advice. 90 00:12:17.670 --> 00:12:31.950 Zakiya Akerele: And that we know it all because we've been there, done that you know but that's not the case, all the time and that's why i'm the first chapter in my book, after the introduction is don't listen to your parents and I know that. 91 00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:41.520 Zakiya Akerele: A lot of parents off guard, but really what i'm saying is there are we live in a society now global society where you can get information. 92 00:12:42.150 --> 00:12:56.010 Zakiya Akerele: Any at any time from anywhere in the world right, you can find mentors that live halfway across the globe that may be better suited and guiding you then your parents right in the same House and parents should not. 93 00:12:56.610 --> 00:13:05.610 Zakiya Akerele: Think just because they have the age or maybe experience in a particular field that they know everything when it comes to higher education, when it comes to. 94 00:13:06.180 --> 00:13:15.120 Zakiya Akerele: career development, so I advise students because i've seen so many students for gold their dreams their passion things that they are really talented at. 95 00:13:15.630 --> 00:13:30.360 Zakiya Akerele: because their parents tell them oh that's not a functional profession or that's not something that's tangible, you know your dreams are too lofty you need to be realistic and a lot of times being unrealistic can. 96 00:13:30.630 --> 00:13:37.860 Zakiya Akerele: can actually help you to open and expand your mind and create opportunities for yourself, you might not have seen before. 97 00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:47.820 Zakiya Akerele: So I think parents need to be a lot more open respect that their their child has a mind of their own and their own passions and then actually help them. 98 00:13:48.690 --> 00:14:00.240 Zakiya Akerele: Get the proper guidance that they need the proper mentorship help them seek out the information that will help them grow and become better adults, as opposed to just telling them what to do you know. 99 00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:12.600 Julie Pabion: hmm I completely agree and also, I think that sometimes you know when the dream sounds and realistic that also may be just. 100 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:14.160 Julie Pabion: The end vision. 101 00:14:14.730 --> 00:14:20.130 Julie Pabion: And then obviously there's a lot of steps in between, because sometimes we just think like oh that's impossible. 102 00:14:20.520 --> 00:14:22.290 Julie Pabion: Yes, maybe today. 103 00:14:22.470 --> 00:14:26.640 Julie Pabion: yeah it's not you know, but I think, as you said, finding mentors who. 104 00:14:26.970 --> 00:14:37.380 Julie Pabion: Are there almost there and then looking back at what they did to get there because it's not you know you can't just like let's say you out of college and you're like I want to be. 105 00:14:38.040 --> 00:14:40.800 Julie Pabion: Like a judge or whatever like you know you have to lay. 106 00:14:41.040 --> 00:14:41.640 Julie Pabion: kind of. 107 00:14:41.850 --> 00:14:44.160 Julie Pabion: I don't know how it works, but it's just an example. 108 00:14:45.630 --> 00:14:49.260 Julie Pabion: But you see what I mean like sometimes you have to be an intern and then you have to do. 109 00:14:49.260 --> 00:14:51.960 Julie Pabion: Is and stuff and like yeah it takes some time. 110 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:53.730 Julie Pabion: And that something. 111 00:14:53.760 --> 00:15:02.280 Julie Pabion: Because you mentioned, you know there's mentors all over the world, now, thanks to the Internet, and I think that's very interesting, maybe. 112 00:15:03.060 --> 00:15:19.020 Julie Pabion: Because I hear often that you need to be able to provide value to them for them to be able to mentor you what is that value, in your opinion, at least, you know, like what, how can you catch someone's you know attention when. 113 00:15:20.310 --> 00:15:21.990 Julie Pabion: Obviously, to get to this into the love. 114 00:15:22.140 --> 00:15:30.810 Zakiya Akerele: Right, I think that before, of course, reaching out and and providing value may look different for different people right we you may not. 115 00:15:31.470 --> 00:15:41.130 Zakiya Akerele: know what value, you have to offer to someone who's already made it that you're seeking guidance from but whatever questions you have. 116 00:15:41.610 --> 00:15:53.880 Zakiya Akerele: If it's just putting yourself out there being transparent on social media whatever platform, that is if it's a professional platform like linkedin or tick tock and saying here's what I aspire to become. 117 00:15:54.300 --> 00:16:06.090 Zakiya Akerele: You know, making content of course content is king, now it is always been but it's even more so now putting yourself out there and showing that these are your aspirations and. 118 00:16:06.690 --> 00:16:15.840 Zakiya Akerele: This is what I already have the knowledge and ability to do now put it in front of people and once people see that you're out there you're willing. 119 00:16:16.380 --> 00:16:21.750 Zakiya Akerele: Then, that you might catch the eye of someone who you didn't even realize was paying attention. 120 00:16:22.290 --> 00:16:28.440 Zakiya Akerele: or when you're when it's time for you to connect with someone at a certain level you already have. 121 00:16:28.740 --> 00:16:39.150 Zakiya Akerele: You know, a body of content or questions, or whatever you put yourself out there and they're more than willing to help you once they see you made the effort already. 122 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:50.970 Zakiya Akerele: So maybe you don't have right now the skills to say hey I can do this for you, but here's what I what I have and here's what I have done, would you be open to mentor me in a lot of times, people would you know. 123 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:59.190 Julie Pabion: yeah I guess it's very it's good, because you have a head start on others, because at least you know, but you want. 124 00:16:59.490 --> 00:17:01.230 Julie Pabion: like this massive. 125 00:17:01.470 --> 00:17:04.350 Julie Pabion: way and and then yeah. 126 00:17:04.650 --> 00:17:05.370 Julie Pabion: I guess. 127 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:07.470 Julie Pabion: Sorry, I forgot what I was saying. 128 00:17:09.390 --> 00:17:12.510 Julie Pabion: And there was another point that I wanted to to jump on that. 129 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:19.230 Julie Pabion: Thursday night. 130 00:17:20.100 --> 00:17:20.460 Okay. 131 00:17:25.050 --> 00:17:37.770 Julie Pabion: yeah so also yeah so I guess also not be afraid of sharing what your plans are because I think sometimes you you're so afraid that you're not gonna be able to. 132 00:17:37.770 --> 00:17:39.210 Julie Pabion: Make it that you don't want to. 133 00:17:39.870 --> 00:17:44.970 Julie Pabion: But actually what you're saying is like no, you should talk about what you're good yeah. 134 00:17:45.870 --> 00:17:49.050 Zakiya Akerele: I personally understand being afraid to share. 135 00:17:49.500 --> 00:18:01.140 Zakiya Akerele: i've i'm overthinking it means put that in past tense, I was once an over thinker, and I would overthink everything and keep so much to myself and realizing that once I did put. 136 00:18:01.350 --> 00:18:11.940 Zakiya Akerele: things out there that's when I aligned with the right people right that were able and willing to help me further my goal so it's always good to put yourself out. 137 00:18:13.560 --> 00:18:20.670 Julie Pabion: yeah I agree, sometimes it can be scary but also just like overcoming that you learn so much and you grow and you see that. 138 00:18:20.970 --> 00:18:22.560 Julie Pabion: Oh it's not that bad I can. 139 00:18:22.950 --> 00:18:23.970 Julie Pabion: I can do it again. 140 00:18:24.180 --> 00:18:25.530 Julie Pabion: So yeah. 141 00:18:25.620 --> 00:18:45.480 Julie Pabion: I guess it's a another another step to to learn that's amazing yes and so obviously we will leave the links of your socials and up his new book so everyone can read it at home, and is there any last advice that you would like to share. 142 00:18:45.990 --> 00:18:52.800 Zakiya Akerele: Well, for parents, you know myself being a parent, and I know that it can be challenging sometimes. 143 00:18:53.340 --> 00:19:06.510 Zakiya Akerele: to feel like you're leaving your child up to their own devices, so speaker, you know not really having a hands on or feeling like you have so much control over what they do in the steps that they take but. 144 00:19:07.080 --> 00:19:20.400 Zakiya Akerele: I would just advise parents to be again just be open to listen to their parents be I mean their children, excuse me and be willing to help them navigate their dreams and aspirations and not just. 145 00:19:21.570 --> 00:19:38.790 Zakiya Akerele: placing their own ideals on them so just being open allow them to kind of drive the car while you you'd be the backseat driver the way guide them as much as you can but be open to allowing them to flow in and do what they need to do on their own. 146 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:45.270 Julie Pabion: hmm that's a very good advice I have a another question if. 147 00:19:46.920 --> 00:20:03.420 Julie Pabion: If, for example, of parent a parent was to be very skeptical over a curve choice, do you think it would be good to as a way of having a conversation asking the kids to do they can sort of presentation and do more research to. 148 00:20:04.260 --> 00:20:08.880 Zakiya Akerele: That you you're actually mentioning the advice I give in chapter. 149 00:20:10.350 --> 00:20:19.200 Zakiya Akerele: I tell the students actually you do the research and have everything prepared so that you can present it to your parents. 150 00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:28.080 Zakiya Akerele: They can see that you're not your your series right you already have done the research look for the resources that you would need. 151 00:20:28.530 --> 00:20:34.260 Zakiya Akerele: And also connected with the right mentors and they don't have to be mentor that are physically in you know. 152 00:20:34.650 --> 00:20:44.670 Zakiya Akerele: where you can meet with them like I said, you can meet with people online or you can have mentors to courses that you take online or programs or mastermind groups there's so many ways to get mentorship. 153 00:20:44.970 --> 00:21:01.560 Zakiya Akerele: So getting the resources, the guidance and then presenting it to your parents and not just shooting out, you know, ideas and if you don't know what you want to do show them that you have you have a serious mindset in what you you aspire to become so yeah that's definitely a good idea. 154 00:21:02.520 --> 00:21:06.540 Julie Pabion: hmm I love that and yeah I guess the parents can also join on the call and. 155 00:21:06.870 --> 00:21:12.270 Julie Pabion: ask questions directly and you know, can I get reassured yeah that's that's very useful. 156 00:21:12.510 --> 00:21:16.770 Julie Pabion: I know for a fact that, like a few youtubers, for example, had to do that. 157 00:21:17.550 --> 00:21:21.510 Julie Pabion: To be able to to quit school, for example, and all time and. 158 00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:28.980 Julie Pabion: You know it's it's a big decision for sure, and so they had to have kind of like a few years plan. 159 00:21:29.010 --> 00:21:31.470 Julie Pabion: To show that it's a viable. 160 00:21:33.090 --> 00:21:34.530 Julie Pabion: Like business but. 161 00:21:35.550 --> 00:21:36.030 Julie Pabion: yeah. 162 00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:38.220 Zakiya Akerele: Okay. 163 00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:47.760 Julie Pabion: very nice well Thank you so much for sharing all your advice and expertise and everybody go by dump your degree. 164 00:21:49.230 --> 00:21:52.020 Zakiya Akerele: Thank you so much for having me I enjoyed the conversation. 165 00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:52.950 Julie Pabion: Thank you.

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Julie Pabion


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